Tom and Patrick talk with David Adams, Senior Director of Strategy for the Urban Assembly in New York City, about the role of education in a democracy, social-emotional learning, and International #SEL day.

More About Our Guest

David is the Senior Director of Strategy at The Urban Assembly. He previously served as the Director of Social-Emotional Learning at the Urban Assembly, and prior to that was the Social-Emotional Learning Coordinator for District 75 where he shaped the District’s approach to social-emotional learning for students with severe cognitive and behavioral challenges. He has worked internationally in schools in England, standing up and evaluating programs of positive behavioral supports and Social-Emotional Learning as a research intern at Yale University’s Health, Emotion and Behavior Lab, and published multiple academic papers around the relationship of social-emotional competence, and student academic and behavioral outcomes. David is also co-author of The Educator’s Practical Guide to Emotional Intelligence, which was published in 2020. He is married with two children, serves on the Board of Directors of CASEL and is an Civil Affairs Officer in the Army Reserve. David holds an M.Ed in Educational Psychology from Fordham University.

Note: While we’re currently going through the approval process with a number of podcast distributors, you can listen to this episode through the player above and read the transcript of our conversation below.


Tom

Hi, I’m Tom.

 

Patrick

And I’m Patrick, and we SHARE, which stands for Stories of Humanity and Resourcefulness in Education. On this podcast, we have practical conversations with inspiring educators. We are extremely fortunate to be joined by the incomparable David Adams today, who is the Senior Director of Strategy at the Urban Assembly. He previously served as the director of social-emotional learning for the Urban Assembly, and prior to that, he was the social-emotional learning coordinator for District 75. Where he shaped the district’s approach to social-emotional learning for students with severe cognitive and behavioral challenges. David’s made an enormous number of contributions to a dizzying number of fields. You can learn more about him in this conversation with me and Tom or follow the links in the show notes. Welcome, David, thanks for joining us.

 

Tom

Welcome, David.

 

David

Well, thank you, Patrick and Tom for have me. I really appreciate being here today.

 

Patrick

Yeah, Let’s start with what is the Urban Assembly?

 

David

Well, it’s a great question, Pat, thanks for asking. The Urban Assembly is a school support organization located in New York City. We had developed and support 23 schools in the New York City area, and our mission is to ensure that students have social and economic mobility by improving public education, so that means we use the schools that we developed and supported in New York City to understand and innovate around school support solutions for schools and districts across the country. So we started from New York City, but we also do not work now in places like Tennessee and Texas and Virginia and Los Angeles, so we’re moving from our kids in Urban Assembly to all kids across the country.

 

Patrick

Great, and you are the Director of Strategy. What does strategy look like for an organization that big with that many sites across the country?

 

David

Well, it’s about understanding our impact. Being able to scale our impact in a way that’s sustainable. The goal is for us to improve the outcomes of public education, to ensure that all students involved in the public education system can have the social and economic mobility that they need to be successful, so strategy means understanding what the education market looks like. It means really thinking about what are the problems, what are the stop… The challenges that students and teachers and districts are facing around producing outcomes, and how can the Urban Assembly develop solutions that help unstick those problems and move the work forward.

 

Patrick

How much of your job is purely research-based where you’re digging into the literature versus going out and talking to people at school sites.

 

David

So I’d put research in a larger context, right. So the literature gives us some theoretical frameworks, it tells us what should happen, but there are different ways to understand and develop knowledge. One is the way that you just talked about, one of the things we do at the Urban Assembly is bright spot analysis, right? So what schools are doing really well in improving our ELA outcomes for students of color, what are they doing in those schools, so what does it look like in those schools versus schools are really challenging those outcomes, so looking at the literature to understand what the big idea is, but also looking at our schools and understanding who’s doing well on specific questions that we care about, and then how do we replicate that and scale it to the entire network and then the entire country. The other thing I would say about that is that a lot of the literature with regards to interventions in the context of schools, tell us what but not how to… We all know what should be happening in regards to differentiation, for example, we all know what should be happening with regards to phonics instruction, but the question of how, how do we organize schools and systems around these ideas, how do we implement these concepts in a way that stick to students and stick to teachers, how do we move from the what of the research to the how of the implementation? And that’s a lot of what we do in our schools. And that’s a lot of what we do across the country.

 

Tom

That’s always been something that’s been a challenge is. Someone who writes about education and teacher practice is, I often think to myself, gosh, this sounds convincing on paper, it makes pedagogical sense, but when it comes to playing out in the classroom, what will it be like?

 

David

It’s a great point. One of the things that we invest a lot in is operationalizing concepts, so the work we’ve done, for example, in social and emotional learning through our resilient scholars program has taken these ideas of social and emotional learning and operationalized them in ways that teachers can specifically, for example, plan a lesson plan that connects academic formats, legs, accredit dialogue or turn-on talks to social-emotional skills, so moving from the idea of this is important, and I think all teachers stood around and say, Yes, I agree, I would like to do this. To the, Here’s a step-by-step methodology that will allow you to do this on a day-to-day basis thereby changing behavior, thereby improving outcomes.

 

Patrick

Schools join the Urban Assembly, or does the Urban Assembly go out and recruit schools. Or is it some third option?

 

David

It’s a little complicated. So the Assembly was started about 25 years ago when we were asked to develop a school, particularly in the Bronx, because high quality schools were not as prevalent in the Bronx in terms of teaching and learning practice, they’re in client administration, we were asked to develop multiple schools in the context of the Gates Small Schools movement, from there we move to developing schools around career technical education, so we really focused on how CTE programs support engagement in students across New York City, and from there, we moved to not developing schools, but improving schools. So our initial kind of innovation was school structure, small schools, CTE pathways, and from there we started to innovate around How do school support mechanisms impact outcomes for students and for teachers. So right now, to be a part of the Urban Assembly, you have to be a part of a specific kind of relationship that we have with the DOE, but to receive Urban Assembly supports, all you have to do is call us up, let us know what it is that you’re looking for and we will match you with the program or service that addresses the need that the school or district is having.

 

Patrick

How is it that you got involved with the Urban Assembly?

 

David

Well, I started my career at Rutgers University here in New Jersey with Dr. Maries Alais. I spent time in the Rogers character development and social-emotional learning lab. I was really interested in the notion of non-cognitive is what we called it at the time skills, attitudes and values that underlie educational and life achievement. From there, I moved into the Center for Social-Emotional Learning, which is now on the National School Climate Center. Spent there are two years thinking about how school climate and learning environments impact the way that students persist in learn learning activities, went over to the El Health, Emotion and Behavior Laboratory, where I was working around emotional intelligence, spent a year in England on their behalf. Where I was really thinking about implementation, and this goes back to what Tom was talking about, we had all these really interesting theories and research and randomized control trials, and I was tasked to work in schools in Maidstone and Kent in England, to actually translate those ideas into actions and on school behalf into sustainable actions. That’s where I really got into this notion of diffusion of innovations, how do ideas moved through social systems and how can we organize interventions in ways that make them stick to the people who need to implement them.

 

Tom

Did you learn anything by working in a non-American culture. I mean, what, where the specific aspects of British culture that taught you things about implementing those ideas.

 

David

It’s interesting question, Tom. I think… Well, first, I think British culture things really interesting around ethnicity, the first thing I notice is that when you’re looking at students, they break down students from national origin, not just in ethnic origin, so when I was working with schools in England, for example, they made a distinction between students from Indian students from Pakistan and students from Africa and students from the Caribbean with regards to the way that they organized demographics. So that was just an interesting thing. The second thing I thought was very interesting about the English system is their Ofsted system, which the New York City Department of Education adopted. Essentially, school walk throughs. The New York City Department of Education does this in terms of school quality and measuring school quality through the quality review guide, but this system, the Ofsted system, not only do they come to schools, but they spent a lot of time looking at value-added scores, right, so the Ofsted system essentially looks at what a student should be performing given their performance, current performance and data that they have, and then they judge schools in our rates schools based on how well that school has beat that performance for each individual student, that performance prediction. This became a really big controversy this year because of the COVID crisis, students didn’t receive test scores and didn’t take test scores, and so Ofstead went in and they used their statistics to predict student achievement on these tests, and it was a very big deal because why you can predict populations, it’s very difficult to predict individual student outcomes, and so students who worked very hard got a lower grade because that is what the general average grade would be in their school, and that taught me a lot about how schools impact student outcomes, the difference between student demographics and characteristics and school impact and school characteristics, and that really very much oriented my understanding of how we measure schools. I’ll say one last thing. I think the notion of middle class in England is very interesting, and the academy system versus the state-sponsored school system, the private schools versus the academies, those are just some interesting ways to understand the role and function of education and how students are tracked to different outcomes based on their scores and their GCSEs and things like that.

 

Patrick

So you, much like a number of our guests came to this work with a broad set of experiences, and among that is your experience in the military. Can you talk about how that may have informed the work that you do.

 

David

Absolutely, yeah, so I’ve got 18 years in the Army Reserve. I started out 2001 as an Army musician. I was an Army musician for 12 years. In 2014, it was direct commissioned into the engineering corps, so I became a second lieutenant in the engineering corps. I was an engineer officer for four years, I commanded a drill sargeant company for two and a half years. We were supported turning soldiers, excuse me, turning civilians into soldiers. And then I moved over to the Civil Affair Core recently, about two years ago. And in the Civil Affairs core, I am an expert skill practitioner in public education, so my job is to advise about the role of public education in governance and counter governance, and the context of military operations and military strategy. I care a lot about the notion of service, and the military has taught me a lot about the difference between knowing something and doing something, the difference between being in a group around what you do for yourself and what you do for others, and it’s really grounded my thinking around how we think about the kinds of people we want to produce for our society, I’ll give you an example here, and the military, we have a context of leadership called Be-Know-Do, that’s our framework. Be is your character. Know is your skills your interpersonal, your tactical skills, your interpersonal, and Do is what you do with these skills, like how you actually complete the mission, that’s a really important I think dichotomy. I think our schools today, we care a lot about the Know what do students know, we’ve got all these tests, we’ve got all these opportunities for students to show us what they know, but we are less invested in what students do with that knowledge and who our students are. And in the military, that’s a big deal, so if I’ve had really great tactics, you know, and my job as an officer is to lead and somebody starts shooting at me, and I can’t actually implement those tactics because I’m afraid and because I haven’t demonstrated courage in this context, then my knowledge of those tactics is irrelevant. Alright, I have to be able to be a courageous and then I have to be able to use my knowledge of tactics to lead my troops forward in order to accomplish the mission. So what I’ve seen in our education system is that we’ve emphasized a lot of what students know, and we’ve under-invested in who students are in terms of their social-emotional character development, and we’ve underestimated what students do with that knowledge. If our students know how to research but they are researching things that are biased towards things that make them feel a part of our community, even if that community may not be one that is constructive to the conversation we’re trying to have about what it means to be American, for example. What it means to be part of the American social fabric, then they’re using their skills of Know to pursue ends that are destructive and not constructive. So the idea, I think from the military has taught me is just pay attention to who people are as much as what they know. We can’t confuse cleverness with character, we have to invest in the whole child.

 

Patrick

There’s a lot of movements in education, not just over the past couple of years, but over the past couple of decades, like character education, for example, in social-emotional learning, which is much more prevalent today. What’s the… From your perspective, what is the definition of social emotional learning? What is the… So many people use this term, but use it in a slightly different way. How do you use it? And how does the Urban Assembly use it?

 

David

That’s a great question, Pat, thank you. So Social-Emotional Learning refers to the skills, values and attitudes that allow children and adults to effectively relate with themselves, relate to others and solve problems. It’s the intentional development of things like social awareness, self-management, social-management, relationship skills, and responsible decision-making in the context of solving problems. So the most important thing we talk about at Urban Assembly is how students relarw to themselves, how students relate to others, and how they solve problems, and our intentionality about building those skills, values and attitudes that support the problem solving of students and adults.

 

Patrick

So in a previous conversation, we had spoken about the role of education and democracy, and it feels like in this framework that you’re laying out, that there is an emotional and a social component that is equal to the Know component of that triad that you discussed, or later from your military experience? Is that accurate?

 

David

Very accurate, Pat. The idea here is that we’re social beings and governments and governance is essentially our social contract for how we’re going to act in the community with each other. There is this emphasis, for example, that we need more bridge builders, need more engineers, we need more STEM folks, and I question what bridges we will build if the world around us is falling apart because we haven’t invested in the kinds of people who can create community. And so the kinds of skills to negotiate conflict, to take the perspective, these are the never-ending pursuit of what it means to be in a community and what it means to build a society. And when we under-invest in the ability of our young people to solve social problems, and I’m not talking about social problems like poverty, solve social problems in the context of policy, I’m talking about How do you disagree without being disagreeable, for example, how do you understand things from your perspective of others, how do you create solutions that encompass multiple needs, from different perspectives, from different communities in order to move forward towards the common good? Those skills are as important on a day-to-day basis, on the neighborhood basis, on the community basis, as the skills that allow us to build the physical bridges that allow our cars move from one part of the country to another.

 

Tom

I really agree with that idea. It’s the same old argument or juxtaposition of the Humanities versus the Sciences, when in reality that you need to be integrated. There should always be humanity in STEM fields because humans are the reason those things happen, but people forget that and they also sort of see those skills are separate from those domains, even though, as you say, they’re an integral part of it.

 

David

Absolutely, I think, to your point, Tom, every citizen is asked to participate in government, and that doesn’t mean just going and writing letters to your senator or voting every four years in a potential election, governance is the formal institutions that articulate how we will participate in governance, which is the social contract that we that people make. So if we the people, are the people who are governing ourselves, then we need to develop the skills and attitudes and values that would allow us to do the things that governance requires, which is compromise, which is listening, which is understanding others, which is managing ourselves in a way that balances are personal and our social identities. These are things that are the pre-requisites for governments in a society like ours, so if we remember that the contrast to this was the monarchy where folks were born to rule, they’re born to govern, and the only way to get into that place was by birth, we think about the American ideal, which of course, I was only realized through the efforts of people like African-Americans, people like women, people like that Chicano movement, people like the labor movement, to include all people in the We the People, and then take that We the People towards the ideas of what it means to be able to govern ourselves, to be in community, to understand that the social contracts are not just dusty papers written by folks 250 years ago. These are ever-evolving notions of how we’ve got to relate to each other.

 

Patrick

What would you say to young people that say, That’s all well and good, but my vote really doesn’t matter, I belong to one of these disenfranchised groups that you were talking about, there’s so much standing between me and actually making a political difference.

 

David

I appreciate that question, Pat. I think we have to understand that America is an ideal. It’s an experiment. The idea of America articulated in Declaration of Independence only comes to reality through the exhortations of men and women who care to make that idea a reality and true. And so each person contributes to our country through their actions. When you don’t like your political system or your political leader, that’s on you because you participate in that political system or don’t. But either way, you’re influencing those outcomes, so the goal of a democracy is to reflect the will of the community, and we are responsible to carry our nation forward by putting the best foot that we have and making sure that our will is represented in our local politics and our national politics and beyond. So the notion of civic engagement being focused on simply voting, I think is misplaced it. Civic engagement about being in community. It’s about inviting your neighbors to your house. It’s about providing service for those in need. It’s about the daily actions that create community for people, and then those institutions that translate those actions into representation. So we all matter, we all have a part and we all have a responsibility in realizing the dream that America was into the idea that America should be.

 

Patrick

So you have a couple of kids. Two boys.

 

David

Two kids, Elias and Adam, yes.

 

Patrick

Great, and what did these conversations look like with them?

 

David

We talk about the notion of responsibility as doing what you can for yourself and then contributing to your family and to your community, so we do character indication and every night and we look at some quotes, we talk about respect, responsibility and resilience. And so we talk a lot about responsibility as contributing. First, doing what you can for yourself. Right, that’s an idea. Don’t let anybody do for you what you can do for yourself. And then secondly is, how do I then contribute to my community in this case, particularly in COVID, is the family. So the question becomes, How are you contributing to our family? And that’s cleaning up after yourself, making sure your plate is taken up off the table, simple things, but that’s the ground work for understanding your personal and your social responsibility, ’cause I weave from family to community, then we move from community to nation, and it’s the same question: What am I giving to be part of this organization, to be a part of this institution, to be part of the social fabric, so that I can be living up to my responsibilities.

 

Patrick

I really like this idea of responsibility to one another, I see how useful it is within the context of education, within the family and with it in civil society, and it seems to resonate throughout the philosophy that you have and the approach that you take to all the work that you do.

 

David

Yeah, this is something that’s really ingrained to me through 18 years of military service. The idea of military is that we are a team of teams, that we take care of each other, we complete the mission, we take care of people, and that were stronger together. So it’s one of the ideas that I think the military has really raised up in me, one that I hope that I can contribute to my children as well.

 

Patrick

And so in addition to the military experience that you have, the educational experience that you have, you had mentioned a couple of different writers in a previous conversation, including John Dewey and Neil Postman, are there others who are writing in this field or in any other field that inspire the work that you do with the Urban Assembly?

 

David

I appreciate very much the question. In the context and understanding of education, the public education system doesn’t just serve or publicly creates the public, and so I think when you really understand… And obviously, he’s drawing from Dewey in that notion, but if you really understand this idea of self-governance, and then you accept that self-governance means that we are inclusive of all those who are in our social fabric, to contribute their notion of what it needs to be in the community, then our education system can’t only focus on the test scores that drive so much of our work, the idea that we’re preparing students as Dr. Lives would say for a life of tests instead of the tests of life is grounded when you look around and you see highly credentialed people, and I’m using that very specifically, highly credentialed people who are struggling to demonstrate their education and solve problems. Right, these are folks who are coming and graduating from the top-tier institutions their countries have to offer, who are unable to pursue the common good. And that’s not an easy thing to do it. A common good, if you think about a math problem, if you’re thinking about when you’re trying to create a common common denominator, right, you have to understand what are the things that go into that common denominator, come up with a common number that reflects the denominator effectively, I would say, Alright, I wanna have these three fractions and I’m gonna come up with the thing that’s reflective across all of them. And it’s just a math problem. When you’re in fifth grade, you’re just like, alright, the answer is three-fourths. But in reality, that that process is a lot more complicated, you gotta listen, you gotta see how different perspectives can be combined and pulled apart, but that’s the work of nation building, that’s the work of community building, that’s the work of coalition building. And we teach it in the context of math for something you’ll probably never do in your whole life except for the time that it’s taught and the time that you tested, and yet we don’t invest in the actual work and skills that will allow people to take this notion of common denominators and common good, and pursue it in real life situations, which would benefit not only our communities or relationships, but our entire country.

 

Patrick

So what would you say… There’s quite a few people out there, especially in the classroom level, who say, I’m a math teacher, I’ve got to teach math and these kids are gonna take this test, and if I don’t teach them these formulae, they’re not gonna be able to pass it. I don’t have time for Civics.

 

David

Yeah, I don’t blame them. I think on the teacher level, they are asked to move through a curriculum and students are assessed on their knowledge of that curriculum, and teachers are under a lot of pressure to move through a series of algorithms or notions of things like mathematical problem solving that are specific to the education system and not generalizable beyond really specific fields. So at the teacher level, I don’t lay the blame on that space, but when we think about our state standards, when we think about our Board of Education or local board of educations, I think that’s where we need to do better. We need to understand what education is. An education is preparing young people to contribute to society, some of that is, and much of that is the skills that you bring to bear: Your mathematical prowess, your verbal acuity, your ability to speak and listen effectively, your knowledge of history, those are things that… Those are skills you need to bring to bear, but as important as the skills you would bring to bear are the kinds of values and attitude you hold about what it means to be in the community and how to build that community as we continue to educate students, along the lines of only what they know that could be demonstrated on the test, we will see our democracy slip away from us under the guise of standardized testing and achievement. What we need to achieve is a community. What we need to develop is a notion of who we are, that’s constantly changing it. This is not as if we’re a country that is a very homogenous group of people who came together and share a common sense of religion, and a common ethnic ancestry. No, we are a country that is grounded not in who we are ethnically, but on what we believe in, in the context of our national values in our Constitution, and the ethos is that make us American.

 

Patrick

So let’s switch gears a little bit and talk about… Or maybe it’s not really switching gears much at all, but you have an event coming up this year, and you had the first one last year called #SEL day. Can you talk about what that is?

 

David

Yeah, absolutely. So #SEL day is a day to really recognize and honor those who have really invested in the social-emotional skills and the institutions that have created people who use social-emotional skills to build community. So this year, our focus is on building bonds, re-imagining community. Last year we had two million people involved in the #SEL Day. We had all 50 states represented, we had 25 countries, and this year we’re looking to get 10 million, 10 million people who are involved in SEL day, and that’s gonna come through the work of individuals in schools and institutions who take the day to recognize things like relationship skills and social awareness, how kids contribute to their community. They’re gonna take the day to understand how social self-awareness, how I understand my strengths and challenges and my emotional space contributes to my ability to communicate effectively and understand the perspective of others. So the day is sponsored by the Urban Assembly and the social-emotional learning alliance SEL West. And we’re looking to just make sure that we honor the folks who have invested in the social-emotional development that our country needs in order to be successful.

 

Patrick

Ever since Tom and I have started to have these conversations with people, we recognize just how many people are doing incredible work in this area related to trauma-informed care and social-emotional learning, so 10 million seems like a big number, but also it doesn’t seem too crazy. Just based on the amount of people we see and the response from people in their audience, the amount of people with children or students who are struggling with one thing, another or just simply interested in developing their own social-emotional skills. So how do people get involved?

 

David

That’s a great question, Pat, thank you. So you can go to SELDay.org. You can become a partner, you can become a partner as an individual. You can become a partner as an organization, and you can showcase SEL. You can promote SEL. You can make sure that other people know about the work that you’re doing. Because we have a badge system now, and so if you’ve done something great, I just put in for a badge and you can let people know about the work that’s happening on social media. And so the four things that you can focus on is showcasing SEL, promoting SEL advocating for SEL or supporting SEL. It is going to be about individuals who are engaged and invested in the social-emotional development of themselves in their community. It’s about time to celebrate those folks, so we have a lot of celebration for folks who are focused on breaking things down. We have a lot of celebration, or maybe not celebration, more, but attention to folks who are focused on taking things away or critiquing who we are and what we do as a society, and it’s time to celebrate the folks who construct, who raise things up and build, and social-emotional skills are gonna help us do that.

 

Patrick

So you’re someone with a deep background in how ideas move through systems and society, what’s your take on how a day organized around a hashtag works and the proliferation of an idea through social media. What does it look like what’s the efficacy of that kind of idea versus systems that we may have relied on in the past?

 

David

Well, first, I want to say that our original idea of SL was going to be an in-person event where schools were actually demonstrating their social-emotional skills… Obviously, the COVID situation kinda put a hamper on it on that original plan, and so we moved more towards an awareness campaign and a celebration and recognition. And what we celebrate matters. What gets into the public consciousness matters. And it’s very hard to celebrate folks who are trying to build things, who are trying to construct things. It’s very easy to celebrate folks who drop mic and drop a bomb and to… The things that people are trying to construct. So the goal of this is to give energy to folks who wake up every day and then say, You know, I wanna be a better person for my community, for my family, and I wanna make sure that those around me can develop the skills and attitudes and values to contribute to their community as well. And by creating a hashtag about this, we hope that folks start to look at what SEL is… Or I should say that we know that folks will look at what the SEL is, and start to think about what can I do? This is not some top-down thing that needs to be organized at the highest levels of government. This is an individual school, an individual person, individual organization, who says, I’m gonna take some time to recognize what it means to build relationships, to be in community, to resolve conflicts, to understand our role and our emotions, and to understand the roles and emotions of others.

 

Patrick

And just a couple more questions. First, there’s still a lot of people, many young people who are just starting to get into this kind of work. They may have been benefits of social-emotional learning program in their school. They might have heard of it through an adult or a teacher, or maybe they came across the information themselves, and they’re getting into the work for the first time. And you’ve learned a lot of your career from different sources. What advice would you have for those people who are just diving into it, who are just getting started, ’cause it’s not easy?

 

David

It’s not easy. It’s not easy at all. So I would say there’s a couple of things. The first thing I would say is, seek out resources. I’m a board member of Castle, Castle.org is a great place to start to understand what those resources are. The second thing I would say is, invest in skills, not just support. So I think the biggest misconception around social-emotional learning is that it’s about supporting kids social-emotional wellness. And that’s true to an extent, but the most important thing we can do for a young person is to teach them how to manage their emotions, how to resolve conflicts how to communicate effectively. Not just support them. So the second thing I would say is understand and invest in what it means to teach and empower young people to solve problems, because those young people are gonna be the future citizens of our country in terms of our self-government and what it means to solve problems in the context of our institutions of government. The last thing I would say is reach out to me, I’m always down to help folks out and put them in the right direction. I’m part of the SEL for the US. So if there’s a local State, Social-Emotional Learning Alliance, Social Emotional SL for New Jersey, for example, SEL for California, those folks can also help start up the work. And those are the three things that I would say that would help you go from thinking about something to do with it.

 

Patrick

So last question, we just got word that in the state of California, they’re ending the Stay-At-Home order, which they’ve done that before and they’ve re-instated it, but we are hopefully coming into the latter part of the pandemic. When it is all over for real, what’s the first thing you’re going to do when we get the all clear order?

 

David

You know, gosh, I’d really love to see a movie. I’d really love to get into a movie. There, I think… Here’s a crazy story. Last night, I dreamt about seeing a movie, and in the movie or the dream, I couldn’t hear the dialogue and I couldn’t really see the picture, and I worry that’s because my subconscious has kind of forgotten about what it means to go out and actually see a movie. It reminded me of what I’m losing in terms of watching them every day, or I wanna have a chance to… On my TV…

 

Tom

Don’t worry, you’ll pick it back up.

 

David

I mean, I also gotta do is sit there and watch it, so it can’t be that complicated, but yeah, I would love to just really get back into seeing movies, having happy hours with my colleagues, Zoom happy hours, it’s just not… It’s not the way that I wanna live my life.

 

Tom

Cheers to that.

 

Patrick

Well, David, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. We know that you and the Urban Assembly have a lot going on. We wish you the best for #SELDay. We’ll be participating ourselves and good luck with everything else.

 

David

Patrick, Tom, thank you so much for taking time to have this conversation today and good luck with everything that you guys are doing.

 

Tom

Thanks so much.